It's Not About The Money

Backwards roller coasters
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[00:00:00] Steve : Tyler. Earlier this month I went to a roller coaster place, Six Flags. Near, near where

[00:00:07] Tyler : Oh, lucky you.

[00:00:09] Steve : Yeah. We were having a, team building

[00:00:11] Tyler : Wait, you went for work?

[00:00:13] Steve : Yeah. Well, uh, my, my team is all distributed. My, my day job team

is all across the country, and so we usually don't see each other in person very much, but we all flew out to Austin for a little while to, have some meetings together. And one of the things the boss said we should do is go to go to Six Flags.

[00:00:33] Tyler : Well then you're extra

lucky 'cause you got paid to do it. Yeah. awesome.

[00:00:39] Steve : Yeah. So, uh, we went there and the first rollercoaster that we went on was, uh, sort of unassuming looking. It was not very large. The line was short, but it looked fun. So we, we got in line, you get on it, it pulls you backwards up a. An incline and then lets you go and it goes through a couple of loops, and then on the other side it goes up an incline again, and then you go, now you're backwards.

You're going down, down the same track, and then you end up on the other side. Does that make sense? You're kind of going back and forth, but half of the time you're going forwards and half of the time you're going backwards.

[00:01:14] Tyler : Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:01:15] Steve : Yeah. This was the first rollercoaster I had done in a few years, so, it was a little bit unsettling for me, but I enjoyed it.

But then we went to this next one, which is like a very classically, scary roller coaster. Like you go up very high and there's a steep drop and there's, there's a couple more drops later on. Like it's, it's very obviously a high thrill rollercoaster, and I enjoyed that one much more. I'm wondering if the reason was that we were going forwards the whole time, so I could always see where we were going.

For some reason, going backwards was just unnerving to me.

[00:01:59] Tyler : Oh, that's interesting. So.

[00:02:00] Steve : backwards rollercoaster?

[00:02:01] Tyler : I don't know that I have, but you're saying that you enjoyed the scary one more, which means, it, it was more enjoyable because it wasn't unsettling. But you're saying the backwards one was kind of unsettling.

[00:02:14] Steve : Yeah, the backwards one was unsettling.

[00:02:15] Tyler : Okay. I felt like there's a metaphor in there or something.

[00:02:19] Steve : Uh, yeah, that's, that's kind of what I was wondering, but I don't know. Maybe there's not, I might be trying too hard, but.

[00:02:26] Tyler : I can imagine being flung backwards around it. Like I, I imagine like a lot of the twisty rollercoasters I've been on, I guess the normal kind that go forward, it would be kind of crazy to go backwards on 'em. 'cause there's a lot of like sudden turns, whiplash, you know? And if you can't anticipate those moves, I guess that'd be kinda scary.

Yeah, I could see that.

[00:02:44] Steve : Yeah, so maybe it's the lack of ability to anticipate what's coming.

[00:02:49] Tyler : Well,

I'm jealous that you got to go to Six Flags

and for

work. That's exciting.

[00:02:53] Steve : It was fun.

[00:03:00] Steve : Hello there. Dear listener, I am Steve.

[00:03:03] Tyler : And I'm Tyler, and this is another episode of It's Not About the Money, where we discuss a wide range of topics related to creating and running small businesses.

[00:03:14] Steve : Tyler and I are both small business owners like you, and this podcast is our attempt to make sense of the world one episode at a time.

Three types of boredom
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[00:03:25] Steve : Today we are going to talk about boredom. I.

[00:03:30] Tyler : That's right.

I, and I'm kind of nervous to talk about this because I feel like, for people who've experienced the kind of boredom that we're gonna talk about, this could resonate really deeply with them. And they might enjoy it. And for people who haven't, they might just think we're crazy or that I'm crazy. 'cause I actually don't know if you've experienced the kind of boredom that we're gonna talk about today.

[00:03:50] Steve : I'm not sure either. We'll find out.

[00:03:52] Tyler : Yeah. So uh, I just, this comes from, I think, I don't know which episode it was in the past, but somehow this came up that there was a period of my life where I was like extremely bored, like existentially bored to the point where I was, I. Looking up books and articles and reading scientific journals about boredom to understand what I was going through.

I, I don't know if you remember that, but, uh, I, I think, uh, in a weird way it's kind of an interesting topic. So I don't know. I just wanted to use today's episode to kind of share some of my thoughts from that whole experience that I went through years ago. Um, and some of the interesting thoughts about boredom that I got from those articles and, and books that I read. Um, so anyway, I'm just gonna say up front here, we can put links in the show notes of these, but there, there's three kind of articles in particular that, that were interesting. Uh, one is called "What does boredom do to us and for us?" That one was from The New Yorker. There's another article, this is kind of this, uh, during the pandemic, right?

So a lot of people were bored. Interestingly

enough, so I wasn't alone, I guess. Uh, "These are boom times for boredom and the researchers who study it," that one is from the Washington Post, and then another, uh, from a, the Journal of Current Directions in Psychological Science, "Why Boredom is Interesting" rather ironically titled article, I suppose.

So I'll be referencing those kind of throughout and I'll probably forget to say those again. So I just wanted to get that outta the way up front.

[00:05:22] Steve : All righty.

[00:05:23] Tyler : I think, uh, in the types of books that I usually read, uh, kind of like the self-help slash productivity slash business type books that I tend to enjoy, there's a lot of talk about how boredom is a good thing and how. You know, it's when you're bored that creativity can strike and you might get inspiration for your next big idea, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, I don't know if you've heard that kind of sentiment before out there or like in the hustle culture on YouTube, that kind of stuff. 'cause no one's bored. They're always so busy. Right? So like we need to be bored a little bit so we can

[00:05:59] Steve : right. Yeah, I can see that. Where you're just like so drastically overscheduled that there is no time for any new thoughts to appear in your brain.

[00:06:09] Tyler : Yeah. And that was frustrating to me when I was in this period of boredom because I'm like, okay, so I'm bored, so where's all my inspiration?

I did it. I cleared my plate, I've got room to think, and nothing is happening. I just, I hate everything. So, uh, so I just wanted that, that to me was kind of an interesting distinction.

I think what they're really talking about, in my opinion, is more just, uh, uh, scheduled time to ponder or to meditate, whatever you wanna call it, you know, where you're not busy,

[00:06:37] Steve : Hmm.

[00:06:37] Tyler : uh, but not necessarily boredom proper, if that makes sense. So, um, So, uh, one of the articles talks about three distinct types of boredom. I wanna see if you've experienced any of these. Uh, I'm sure you, well, hopefully you have, unless you know, I'd be worried about your humanity if you, if not, I guess to, to a certain extent.

But the first one is just, uh, plain old, mundane, boredom. Like you're waiting for a train or a bus or for a movie to start or something, and you're just kind of like bored.

There's nothing to do. Or waiting in line at Six Flags.

[00:07:15] Steve : There, there was a lot of that,

[00:07:17] Tyler : Yeah.

[00:07:18] Steve : although we had each other to talk to, so it wasn't, it wasn't terribly

[00:07:20] Tyler : Okay, good. Yeah. Excellent. Uh

[00:07:23] Steve : Some of the rides they have, like it's, it's a whole theme while you're waiting in line. So you're going through like these

[00:07:29] Tyler : hmm.

[00:07:30] Steve : of watching this little presentation sort of

[00:07:33] Tyler : So they're fighting the boredom. They're trying to prevent it. They don't want

you bored,

[00:07:37] Steve : Trying to prevent, they don't want you on your phone scrolling

[00:07:41] Tyler : you go.

[00:07:41] Steve : waiting for a rollercoaster.

So

[00:07:43] Tyler : So the second type of, yeah,

Yeah The second type, Uh, is characterized as a profound malaise associated somehow with the human condition itself, So,

yeah,

[00:07:56] Steve : That sounds quite

[00:07:58] Tyler : it does, it's very dramatic. I feel like this is something, uh, that, you know, philosophical types might experience a lot as they ponder humanity, the meaning of life, et cetera.

[00:08:09] Steve : Okay. Yeah.

[00:08:10] Tyler : Uh, the third type, and this is funny to me because these second two are kind of ambiguously defined, uh, but this third type is described as, and this is a direct quote, an ineffable deficit of some unnameable, something. I

don't really know what that means, but I totally relate to it, and I think that's what I

was experiencing, which is like, I was like, my life, there's just, I'm missing something. I have no idea what it is, but like, you know, my job is not exciting me the way that it used to. My hobbies aren't exciting me the way that they used to. I'm just not interested in the kinds of things that I'm used to being interested in. Uh, there's just, I have this kind of like unnameable, something that's missing from my life. So anyway, I don't know if those ring

any bells for you or.

[00:08:59] Steve : Yeah, I relate to all three of those at various times.

[00:09:02] Tyler : So, okay, good. You, you, we, we checked the, the capcha. You are indeed a human. Very good.

Boredom provides us information
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[00:09:08] Tyler : Uh, .Uh, okay. So yeah, that's interesting. Uh, the, the other thing I wanted to share that I found kind of helpful throughout this whole experience was that a lot of these different articles, uh, about boredom seem to agree on one thing, which is that boredom, like any other emotion is. Exists to provide us information. So in particular, two types of information for boredom. Uh, first, the first type of information boredom could provide is whether we are successfully engaged in our current task. So like, whatever we're working on, whatever we're doing, like is it working for us? Are we engaged in it? Are we being successful? If not, we might feel boredom. And the second type of information is whether our current task, regardless of how engaged we are, is it like, is it meaningful or do we find it pointless? So

that's kind of the, the scientific argument for what is the point of boredom, I suppose signaling, you know, information to you that basically what you're doing is not the right thing to be doing 'cause it's not meaningful.

[00:10:12] Steve : Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:10:14] Tyler : So I, I wonder this is, have you ever experienced boredom as it relates to like your career or job? Or is it just me? It could just be me. That's fine. I.

[00:10:26] Steve : Uh, no, I definitely have. Yes. Uh, there have been times in my career where, uh, my, my wife will joke that, uh, the . The six month timer is up and it,

[00:10:39] Tyler : Oh,

[00:10:39] Steve : I've gone on the search for another job again.

[00:10:42] Tyler : interesting.

[00:10:43] Steve : And so if the, you know, if, if I've been at a job for longer than six months, then either that means, or oh, longer than six months without, uh, you know, oh, hey, I got an email from a

[00:10:56] Tyler : Hmm.

[00:10:56] Steve : or, uh, I went looking at, at this other company, you know, just like casually bringing that up in conversation with her.

If I'm not doing that, then that's a good signal to her that, uh, the job I'm currently in is engaging

[00:11:10] Tyler : Yeah.

[00:11:10] Steve : to me, uh, where otherwise it's kind of comes up on this cycle every, every few months. I'm mentioning something.

[00:11:18] Tyler : Yeah, that's interesting actually. I wonder if like, is it something about the novelty of a new job, like new challenges, learning a new company that you think like gets you

excited and engaged and then is that kind of, as you kind of, I don't know, master that or become familiar with it? Do you think that's kind of what, what's going on there?

[00:11:37] Steve : Yeah, I think so. And uh, I haven't changed jobs that

[00:11:43] Tyler : Yeah, yeah,

[00:11:43] Steve : reality, so it's, it's more of a, like my brain just is like, I'm, I'm kind of done with this thing that we're doing right now. Let me entertain, a fantasy of what might it be like if we were somewhere else. And then sometimes that turns into a new job and most of the time it doesn't.

[00:12:01] Tyler : What would it be like if I was making five times my salary and living on the beach? That's a question I often ask. I'm just kidding. But yeah, I can, I can think of two times in my career where I got like pretty, I guess we'll use the word bored. That's what we're talking about. And that's how I would describe it. And it was for totally different reasons. And one was actually when I was in a job at Working probably harder and longer hours than I ever had before in my professional career. And I think at what, you know, it wasn't checking the box for me of meaningful, and I'm not talking about like, I don't think your job necessarily has to be connected to like I some glorious altruistic, uh, vision or mission for it to be meaningful to you.

But like the work was, it was just like constant, unsolvable seeming problems that were mundane and felt like they should be automatable, but like we just couldn't pull it together kind of thing, . And so I was like, this is boring. Like

there's no, I couldn't see a path out, right? So I was very busy and it wasn't like I was bored because there was nothing to do, but I felt kind of hopeless that it could be better. So like that's one type of boredom that I experienced in my career.

[00:13:17] Steve : Mm.

[00:13:18] Tyler : second type, which uh, turns out was just hubris at the end of the day, was I'd been in a job for a couple years and really done a lot to put in place new processes and, you know, uh, policies and things and, and build a team. And like things I thought things were running really smoothly and, and they were. So I kind of got bored 'cause there wasn't as much of that anymore. Like process improvement, like tackling new problems. 'cause it was kind of operationalized. In a sense, and that it was super boring. But I did, you know, like I said, that was hubris at the end of the day because, you know, what did I know about how much better it could be? You know, maybe it was like limited imagination at a certain point. But that resolved itself when, uh, you know, new problems came along. And

I realized, Oh

the system we built was good, but it only worked, uh, for a certain set of conditions. And now those conditions have changed, so we gotta keep going anyway.

[00:14:10] Steve : Yeah. Interesting.

The fork in the road after boredom
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[00:14:12] Tyler : So another thing about boredom that I thought was interesting and multiple of these articles talked about this, is it kind of creates a condition, it creates a choice, like a fork in the road. One of these authors describes it, uh, in terms of how you're gonna cope with being bored. They describe it as the productive path and the unproductive path. Where the unproductive path is basically like sitting on your couch and eating Cheetos and watching Netflix or whatever, whatever. You know, just like basically dealing with your boredom through distraction and the productive path would be doing something proactive to kind of change, uh, your situation, to introduce meaning into your life. Or to work on tasks that you find more meaningful, et cetera. But what's interesting is the researchers have no idea what causes people to take one of the two paths. They speculate that it could have something to do with personality or just like

circumstance or, you know, they have no idea what, what causes people to take one path or the other, which I thought was interesting.

[00:15:13] Steve : Huh. Is there a correlation, uh, of a certain person tends to choose one path or the other in every circumstance, or

does, does that also

[00:15:25] Tyler : Ooh,

[00:15:25] Steve : within the

[00:15:26] Tyler : that didn't come

up in my reading, but that is, that is an interesting

question. I, I, if I had to just guess based on my observations about life, I'd say humans are really, you know, tend to be inconsistent and you know, could I, I wouldn't say that one one person wouldn't always respond a certain way, but I also kind of think. You know, one of the speculations they were, were putting forth was, you know, it is based on personality or just like the character of the person. And so I do think there are

people who are more prone to choosing the productive path and the versus the unproductive path.

[00:15:58] Steve : Okay, so that's interesting. Like the, the, the mind is giving you this signal of, Hey, something here is not meaningful or engaging enough. Uh, let's do something about it. But then the, the something that you do about it is is

not not predetermined.

[00:16:14] Tyler : Right

Yeah. It's technically up to you. I guess

Vitality: the opposite of boredom
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[00:16:17] Tyler : I, I think what's really scary though, is when you realize what's going on. And, and this is kind of my situation in the second of those two boredom episodes I mentioned, I realized that I was bored and I wanted to do something about it, but I like couldn't find, I couldn't figure it out. Like I couldn't find an activity, an uh, at work in

my personal life and a hobby that like seemed to have that meeting I was looking for which, uh, is kind of a good segue to this, uh, idea of Depression instead of boredom. sorry, we're going here for just a second. Uh, they are different, again, this is all according to those articles I mentioned at the beginning, but, but,

there, there is a connection between depression and boredom. And there's a real interesting quote by a guy named Andrew Solomon that I found to be interesting. He, he says The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality. I thought that was kind of an interesting distinction

[00:17:20] Steve : Oh,

[00:17:21] Tyler : because

vitality to me seems like the opposite of boredom. Like boredom is just like, Ugh, monotone, monochrome,

[00:17:28] Steve : Malaise.

[00:17:29] Tyler : Yeah, Exactly. Whereas vitality's like, Ooh, I'm interested, I'm engaged. Like, you know, things are, things are happening for me. So, Um, but he goes on to say in this article that depression is perceived as clinical and chemical. And probably, and this is a big change from years, the years where I was growing up, but probably easier to confess in a lot of social settings than chronic boredom would be because I, do you remember when it was like, not like, okay to talk about being depressed?

I don't know. That was like,

[00:18:02] Steve : Yeah, that, that seems like a change that has happened

[00:18:05] Tyler : so so now this guy's saying it might be easier to talk about being depressed than it is to be, uh, talk about being chronically bored because, uh, he says if you are bored, you might as well be a bore, and no one wants to know about that. So anyway, it's kind of interesting.

[00:18:22] Steve : Huh. Because de depression is, is often something that just kind of happens to you where boredom we perceive as like, well, what . Why are you not doing anything about it then

if you're bored, like, go

[00:18:36] Tyler : Yeah, which is like, exactly what people used to say about depression, right? It's like, oh, you're depressed. Why don't, why don't you go be happy? Like,

go

[00:18:43] Steve : think

yourself out of it,

[00:18:45] Tyler : Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:46] Steve : which is not how it works

for depression, but, uh,

but, and boredom, I dunno, is

boredom,

[00:18:52] Tyler : At least not the clinical and chemical kind that he's talking about here. Yeah.

[00:18:56] Steve : Hmm. So what do you do about it? Or what does, what uh, opportunities does it introduce or

challenges? Did it, does it

introduce

[00:19:07] Tyler : well, uh,

again, I don't know. Again, I just have a big question mark in my head about how relatable this topic will be to anyone who might be listening. But, but for me, it was like a real thing. Okay. So yeah, it was, the challenge was what, how do I find meaning? And put that back into the activities that I'm doing or change those activities.

So there is more meaning to me. And you know what? I don't really know. I didn't find an answer honestly. It kind of just, uh, I think it had to do with a gradual change of perspective. I got really, you know, it was really even more boring. It was like reading about boredom. So maybe I was like, okay, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe this is a path. I don't, because I was trying to like solve the problem scientifically, right? I'm like, wow, I'm so bored. I've gotta find an answer for this. And there was no meaning in that for me. So

I think, uh, you know, I don't know what it was for me exactly, but, you know,

reconnecting with some of those things, like my relationships with my family, you know, finding, uh, new problems to solve at work that I cared about. I think relationships is a big part, was a big part of it for me. So I, yeah, I don't have, I'm not gonna pretend like I have the answers. I think if you're bored at that level ever, uh, just don't give up and hopefully it will pass, which is not very reassuring.

[00:20:23] Steve : Well, yeah, but like in your, in the second period that you mentioned, uh, the thing that got you

out of it was the, the new challenges that arose at work or the, the system no longer fit the

problems that needed to be solved or whatever it

was

[00:20:38] Tyler : And kind of being humbled intellectually, right? Where it's like, oh, I thought I was so cool 'cause I solved all these problems. I operationalized all this stuff. And then realized like, Hmm, no, you're not that cool. I mean, it was okay, but like it could be so much better. I was like, oh,

Man drives tank into supermarket
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[00:20:54] Tyler : There's, there's one other just kind of the there, the article that's called Why Boredom is Interesting Opens with just this fabulous line based on a study from 2018, and this is the first line of the article after the abstract. And I just want to share it because it's great.

When a Russian man stole an army tank and drove it into a local supermarket, you would have been forgiven for thinking he had good reason. Nope, reported journalists. He was just bored.

[00:21:27] Steve : Oh, wow.

That's quite something to do

[00:21:29] Tyler : So , if you

Yeah, if you really wanna mix things up, go steal a

tank and, and, and, terrorize the town, I guess. But, uh, anyway, great article.

[00:21:38] Steve : Huh.

Something that that story makes me think of is, in the cybersecurity, realm. One thing that we recognize now is that the prevalence of cybersecurity crime in a particular area is often correlated with the availability of good jobs for folks with that kind of a training. So if you, if you have a lot of computer science knowledge, but there are no jobs in your area to be had for your knowledge, Uh, one thing you can do is go employ that to make money in,

uh, hacking or cybersecurity, cyber, cyber

crime.

And that's, you know, that's the ,

[00:22:26] Tyler : that does not surprise me for some reason.

[00:22:29] Steve : right? So there's a, there's a little bit of a boredom component there. I mean, it's also like you need to make a living and feed your family

too, but,

[00:22:36] Tyler : Yeah.

Finding meaningful projects
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[00:22:39] Tyler : Well, and I think I wanna tie this back to business and entrepreneurship as well, because I think there have definitely been times in my life where I've started an idea, like a business idea, or at least like a, a project idea out of boredom, largely because other people on the internet made it sound like a really cool idea.

They would change my life in some way where that's like making more money or learning certain skills or whatever. And uh, I think one of the reasons a lot of those efforts, uh, ultimately came to nothing for me is because, I was doing it because someone on the internet said it was a good idea and not because it was like personally meaningful to me.

And so like I always have kind of described it this way, like I really enjoy learning about how to build websites. I have since like high school. I wouldn't say that I'm good at it, but it's just a fun hobby of mine that I really enjoyed. But I've never had anything to put on a website. So like I'm always like, I've got years of just like Building websites and then being like, well, cool, what do I put on it, Because there's no point. It's just, it was fun. So, uh, I've kind of been what, so what's

interesting to me about the business that I'm doing currently, the coaching is it is totally unlike any of the other, uh, businesses or projects that I've ever started in the past. And it, it is actually quite meaningful to me because it's a way to connect with other people. Help them solve like actual pain points in their lives. And that is like, I love it. It's like super meaningful. And

uh, now ironically, the boring part of it for me is, is maintaining the website. I'm like, no, no, no.

Like, lemme just talk. Lemme just coach more people. That's the fun part

[00:24:17] Steve : Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. So it sounds like the, the antidote for boredom is meaning whether, whether that's you can find meaning in the things that you're currently doing, or you find meaning in some other area of life, or you find a way to infuse what you're doing with

meaning.

[00:24:42] Tyler : Yeah, that's what the smart articles say.

[00:24:45] Steve : Okay,

[00:24:45] Tyler : So you Yep. And there are

great books about that. I mean, if you really wanted to find out, there's, there's that Classic Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor

Frankl. Yeah. So good.

Um, one that I, that I haven't read, but that I think is very much connected to this topic and I might, it's, uh, maps of Meaning, is that Right?

By Jordan Peterson. I haven't read it, but that was,

[00:25:09] Steve : sounds right. yeah.

[00:25:11] Tyler : yeah. Um, I might

need to read That someday. 'cause I think it's, it's about creating a meaningful life.

[00:25:18] Steve : Uhhuh. . Yeah.

Have you read his uh,

um, 12 Rules for Life

and that

[00:25:25] Tyler : Yes.

[00:25:25] Steve : he's got two of those

now?

[00:25:27] Tyler : I read the first one.

I read it very shortly after I was introduced to my first ever podcast episode of his, and so my mind was still like reeling from his intellectual whatever, like way of speaking. And I don't think I understood very much of it. honestly. However, I've listened to more of his podcast

since then. I think I kind of, you know, it's kind of like a get, um, I had to learn how to understand that guy.

[00:25:57] Steve : I've, I've heard that Maps of Meaning is extremely academic, and so this, this would probably be helpful that if you already

understand his way of speaking before

you dive into that one.

[00:26:07] Tyler : that. Yeah.

So

saying, uh, start with the podcast, then advance to a book and then Maps of Meaning maybe, which is ironic 'cause I think isn't Maps of meaning. One of his earlier, if not his first book, I don't know. But anyway.

So take those recommendations for what they're worth. Um, yeah. And thanks for bearing with me on my little, uh, therapy session here about those times of my life when I was super bored, and I, I I, it is kind of scary sharing this, to be honest.

'cause like it is, it is, you know, no one wants to be a bore and it's kind of like irritating when someone's like, I'm so bored. And you're like sitting over there with your own life and your own problems and you're like, well, what's wrong with you? Like, I've got plenty of problems to keep me busy. Right.

So,

[00:26:50] Steve : right?

[00:26:50] Tyler : but there you go. It's this thing that happened.

It can happen to anyone.

[00:26:55] Steve : Yeah.

I think it happens

to all of us

[00:26:56] Tyler : Yeah.

[00:26:58] Steve : from time to time. There's nothing wrong with that.

Avoiding overcommitment
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[00:27:02] Steve : I have another question that is maybe tangential, but how do you avoid overcommitting to new things when you're bored or you happen to have extra time temporarily, but you're like, well, I need, I need some more stuff. And then you fill your life with things and, and then

now all of a sudden you're over committed.

[00:27:27] Tyler : My personal answer to that question may disappoint you, but, uh, what I'm like, as bored as I was talking about in this

episode, like, I just don't, I don't have that problem. 'cause people are like, do you wanna do this? I'm like, no. Sounds boring. Not interesting. Like,

like that's the level of,

but, but I'm curious where your question is

coming from.

Like, have you had that experience where like you're, you have some time between projects? Between big busy times of the work year, between tax season, whatever, and like you start loading up on commitments from other people maybe that you wouldn't normally take on. Is that like something you've experienced?

[00:28:03] Steve : I don't, I don't feel like I have the problem of being overcommitted

very often.

[00:28:08] Tyler : That's so great and neither do I. So we're asking the wrong crowd

about this

[00:28:12] Steve : I'm introverted and very happy to just say, no, I'm not interested in going to this thing or joining

this group or,

[00:28:21] Tyler : But I bet you know, someone who has the opposite problem like I do, I know.

plenty of people who, uh, will say yes to the, you know, whether it's because of a people pleasing type personality or just trying, well, trying to be nice, but I guess that's the same thing. Or maybe like not having a clear understanding of what is important to them. Like they'll just, yeah. And then they get really stressed out. I, I, I have friends exactly like that, so. We should ask them because Yeah, I'm just too, I'm just like, no

and it sounds like you are too. So, uh, that's interesting.

[00:28:54] Steve : Yeah.

[00:28:55] Tyler : Uh, we should do an episode about,

uh, oh, I don't know what we'd call it. There's various ways to approach it, like essentialism or, you know, the art of saying no or, you know, saying yes only to the important things 'cause.

[00:29:08] Steve : Mm-hmm.

[00:29:09] Tyler : it sounds like, you know, I, I'm not gonna go and say like,

I'm a, I'm a genius at doing that, but I think it does come more easily to me than to some people, and maybe you too. Uh, but saying yes to too many things is a source of a lot of stress and, and troubles for people.

[00:29:27] Steve : Yeah. And I usually look at something through the lens of is this gonna be sustainable? Like is this a commitment that I can keep up for

however long it's

gonna end up being?

[00:29:39] Tyler : Oh,

[00:29:40] Steve : And so that's probably that helpful in tempering an

impulse to overcommit

[00:29:48] Tyler : Yep. Well, those are all the thoughts I had about boredom. Thanks for listening, Steve and anyone else who might be listening,

[00:29:56] Steve : Yeah. Thanks for sharing them. Whether this was useful

to anyone or not, it was

fun talking to you.

[00:30:03] Tyler : Yeah. And

join us again on another episode of, it's Not About the Money.