It's Not About The Money

Growing your business at the right pace, with Erica Goode
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What is a fractional CFO?
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[00:00:00] Steve: Hello there, dear listener. I am Steve.

[00:00:08] Tyler: And I'm Tyler and welcome to another episode of It's Not About The Money, the podcast where we help you gain the clarity you need to run a successful small business.

[00:00:18] Steve: Tyler has a financial coaching practice. I run a tax business and we are both small business owners like you. This podcast is our exploration of entrepreneurship one episode at a time. This is another episode in our series, The Many Hats of an Entrepreneur, where we cover business functions that every business has, but where you as the owner may not be the expert, things like marketing and sales and IT and finance.

And today specifically, we're going to talk about finance. I'm a tax guy, so I understand the. Backward looking, like bookkeeping and tax reporting aspects of finance. But that kind of only tells you the part of the story that's already happened, and it doesn't help very much in guiding the future of [00:01:00] the business and where you want to go from here.

[00:01:03] Tyler: So today we're excited to welcome Erica Goode to the podcast. Uh, Erica is a fractional CFO for coaches and consultants and the host of the podcast, Coaches, Consultants, and Money.

Her passion is helping entrepreneurs and CEOs grow the profitability of their companies while planning for their family's future. personal financial, financial future. Erica, welcome.

[00:01:28] Erica: Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I've been enjoying your podcast, so it's a treat to actually be on it.

[00:01:35] Tyler: Oh, thank you. Yeah. Actually, Steve was just telling me about an episode of your podcast that he started about a book that I just read. So I'm excited to go check that one out

[00:01:43] Erica: Oh, which book was that?

[00:01:44] Tyler: Die With Zero?

[00:01:46] Erica: Oh, I've been obsessed with that for the past year. Yes,

[00:01:49] Tyler: Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, I just finished it myself. So we'll have to talk about that later. That's awesome. So, um, I've got a question to start off with. The term [00:02:00] fractional CFO. I've heard it, uh, multiple times. I'm not actually sure what fractional refers to in this context. Could you tell me? Explain a little bit about what that means.

And in a general sense, also, what is a CFO, especially in the context of like a one person business?

[00:02:17] Erica: Yeah, absolutely. So a fractional CFO is the term we use when you aren't, you don't have the budget to pay for a full CFO. You want to go out and hire a CFO. A CFO is going to cost you 200, 000 minimum, which is great for these big, uh, multimillion dollar companies that need an in house CFO, but people need a CFO well before they are a multimillion dollar company.

And so what the term fractional means is you can hire. basically like a portion of a CFO. And so where it doesn't cost 200, 000 to hire me, you can pay a fraction of that. And I won't [00:03:00] be a full time CFO for you, but I am basically your CFO at the capacity that you need at that level of business. And so what a fractional CFO does is, uh, hopefully they should be doing everything that a normal CFO would do for you at a much smaller scale.

And so that means they're really have a big oversight into everything financial. So like Steve was saying, Steve, uh, you know, you have a tax person. Every business owner has a tax person, hopefully somebody who isn't themselves if you're not a tax professional, and that person knows your taxes really well.

And there is. Doing a fantastic job of prepping your taxes. Uh, you might also have a bookkeeper who does your day to day books. You might have a financial planner. And the CFO kind of comes in and is not necessarily all of those people they could be, but they're really looking at everything at a holistic view and helping to guide the business from both a financial and strategic, uh, [00:04:00] intersection for the growth of that company.

[00:04:02] Tyler: Awesome. So it sounds like there, that's a lot. It's a lot of functionality that you provide for your customers. Um, that also sounds really useful, both like kind of on the consulting side, almost, and advice sort of. And then also with the financial portions, uh, you know, or the finances of the business.

[00:04:22] Erica: Yeah, absolutely. It's very, it's very, uh, advice driven and expertise driven space. Obviously you need to know the, the nuts and bolts behind all of the accounting going into that. And it's good to know some, some tax as well, but, uh, you really have to know how all the, the pieces of the puzzle go together.

Cash is flying everywhere
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[00:04:42] Steve: So at what point does a small business need a CFO? Like, is there a particular revenue level or is it based on the, the comfort of the comfort level that the owner has with looking at their own books or that kind of thing? Well, at what point would they want to hire someone [00:05:00] to do that?

[00:05:01] Erica: I think a business owner kind of grows into a CFO and a, and a CFO isn't You all of a sudden wake up one day and need, you need a lot of different financial professionals as you're growing that business. It very well may be that on day one, you need a tax person. Which I would recommend. And that's probably the person you start with.

And I see a lot of business owners starting off with a tax person and they're DIYing their bookkeeping. Uh, it might be in a spreadsheet, which is great. I have, I think that's great. If you start off in a spreadsheet, it might be in QuickBooks or Wave or Xero, whatever it may be, you're DIYing your, bookkeeping.

And at some point you grow. I usually see people in the nearing six figures, or maybe they've crossed six figures, where they're like, I don't want to do my bookkeeping anymore. Uh, I don't like it. I'm not really sure I'm using the software appropriately, or maybe I've outgrown my spreadsheet. And you get to the point where you're [00:06:00] like, Oh, it's time to outsource this.

And I see that first move after the tax person is going to a bookkeeper. Generally, they're at a place where they're looking for what I would call a budget bookkeeper, somebody who's not going to break the bank, who's going to get the job done so they don't have to do it, but isn't going to cost them a huge amount of money because you're still very closely watching spend at that six figure mark of your business.

And so they hire the bookkeeper and that bookkeeper is great. They're doing everything on a daily or weekly basis to get your, your books in order so that you're ready for tax season. Um, and then what I see is you get to a point, usually between 200 and 300, 000, and my clients are service based providers, so, uh, this is true of them in that space.

Where they get there and all of a sudden I, I, what I see happening is like, the wheels are flying off or off the rails. Uh, and it's usually, it's because of good things are happening in their business. Business is growing and [00:07:00] all of a sudden it feels like to the business owner. Cash is flying everywhere.

I'm, I'm either making payroll or I'm making tax payments, or maybe I missed a quarterly tax payment. I didn't realize I needed to increase because my profit was really increasing this year and things are just happening and they start to have questions about. Are there tax advantages that I should be looking for that I don't know about?

I generally see people start questioning if they should be an S Corp, if they should elect to be an S Corp around that time. They've probably heard it from a friend and they don't really know what that means, but they know they should. Learn more and ask something about it. And so that's the point where they start asking these questions and realizing that there's a lot more out there that they don't know and they don't want to be an expert on.

And so they need to pull somebody in to start kind of giving this holistic view of what their business, what's happening in their business, which direction it's going and how to avoid any [00:08:00] pitfalls going forward so that they grow without causing a tax issue for them later on. Usually that's the biggest trip up.

That's the first trip up is, My business grew 100, 000 this year. It's so great. I did not realize I needed to increase my quarterly taxes at the same time. And maybe I didn't have that communication with my tax person. And so they get slapped with a four figure tax bill that just is gut wrenching in April and they kind of have this, this realization that, okay, I need somebody to, to help me through this, this area of my business.

All of a sudden, you can see them relax
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[00:08:37] Tyler: So that's cool. It sounds like you're typically joining up with these business owners at a really exciting time for their business, where they've maybe experienced some growth. Either rapidly, or they've just finally hit kind of a new threshold where they're starting to feel the pain, if you will, right, of running a business that's so big, you mentioned a couple pain points.

One is just feeling out of [00:09:00] control, I think maybe is a good way to summarize it with the cash kind of flying everywhere, like you said, and maybe the second one would have been like an unexpected tax, uh, bill or something like that. I'm just curious, like, are there any other. Pain points that you've noticed as kind of like a pattern among the clients or those kind of like the two main ones.

[00:09:19] Erica: Those are the two first ones I would say. And then as they come on board, That's usually what brings them to a fractional CFO or looking for a solution for that. And then what they don't realize is what we get to uncover as we start working together is all of the fun things that like, that we, that they don't even know to think about.

And I don't see them as problems. I see them as opportunities for tax savings or, opportunities to pay themselves more, and they can't see that until we start working together. And it's hard to show them that until I get into the depths of their, of their financials and all of that. So we get to uncover fun things [00:10:00] like, do I have enough cash to pay myself more than I'm paying myself right now?

And that's very hard to see unless you start forecasting forward, all of your cash flows. It may very well be that you can pay yourself more right now, but you don't have the confidence to do that because you don't know what it's going to happen, what's going to happen to your cashflow in six months.

And so we kind of, I get to get in there and predict the future, if you will, and help them make these really exciting decisions of paying themselves more or saving more for retirement and tax advantageous ways and just big picture view.

[00:10:38] Tyler: That's awesome. That actually sounds really fun, to be honest. I'm sure there's a lot more , you know, um, just because it sounds fun, doesn't mean I could do it or anyone who doesn't have the experience that you have, but that sounds really rewarding. Like, like, it sounds fun is what I'm trying to say. That's, that's exciting.

[00:10:52] Erica: It's really, it's, it tends to be fulfilling for me because I get to watch my clients go from, you know, I [00:11:00] always have zooms with my clients. I'm always on video with them every month. And what happens is I can see that their shoulders are up when I first start meeting with them. And there's a lot, you could just see the nerves on their face.

And as we work together and as I can show them what their cash projections are. are going to be based on what we've talked about is going to happen in their business and how that affects their taxes. All of a sudden, you can see them relax because they know what's going to happen in their business. And before that, before working with me or a fractional CFO, it was always, you know, Like a surprise party, right?

Like, I don't know what's going to happen next month. I don't know what my tax bill is going to be. Uh, I hope I'm going to be okay. And it's just like waiting for the other shoe to drop. But, but we already, when they work with me, we get to see where the, we, where the other shoe is going to land. And so we already know that.

We know that 60 days in advance, six months in advance, well in advance so that they can sleep better at night and run their business confidently. And I see that they make different decisions [00:12:00] because that they have that information so far ahead of when they used to have it.

Money affects our emotions
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[00:12:05] Steve: That makes sense. I want to talk a little more about some of the transitions that you mentioned, like being able to pay yourself more or, uh, retirement contributions or charitable giving, those kinds of things. What are the, what tend to be the kinds of, uh, I don't know, big events in the business life cycle that you help clients work through?

[00:12:28] Erica: Yeah. Like you said, paying yourself is usually the first one because I tend to see people not paying themselves consistently. It's not that they don't have the money to pay themselves. It's that, especially where I help consultants, consulting tends to be a roller, I always call it rollercoaster revenue.

One month you make 60, 000 of revenue. The next two months is zero. Then you make 20, 000, then it's 15, then it's 80. And you're just on this huge revenue rollercoaster where it's hard to know what [00:13:00] you're quote, allowed to pay yourself on a monthly basis when you have such huge swings in revenue. And so I come in and, and we, my goal for my clients is always to pay yourself the same amount every month, regardless of what your revenue is doing, because I want my clients to feel like they have a stable job, even though they're working for themselves so that they, on the personal side, like I know you just did a huge series on YNAB and personal financial planning and all of that.

Uh, I want them to be able to do that. personal side planning, agnostic of these huge revenue swings. And so when we can get to a place where they're paying themselves the same dollar amount every single month, so that that doesn't affect their family, then we get to start, you know, looking at the business in a much more honest way because they're not worried that it's going to affect their family.

[00:13:55] Tyler: You know, I can't help but notice that so much of what you're talking about in terms of the [00:14:00] benefits of working with you as a, as a fractional CFO are kind of on the emotional health side, almost. It sounds like, right. Or, or like peace of mind, maybe.

[00:14:11] Erica: Yeah, I would completely agree with that. There's so much emotion and feelings tied up with money, whether you're in business or personal, like, I don't think we give enough credit as humans that money affects our emotions as much as it does. And by no means of, am I a therapist or any kind of emotional or mental health professionals?

Those are angels in their own right. It plays off of each other in finance, and we tend to then make decisions about our business because of how we feel about money and they can actually hold business owners back because they're trying to be conservative. On the flip side, you have clients who don't realize what kind of financial situation [00:15:00] they're in and they're blowing through their cash, right?

So it works both ways. And I just, uh, the, you know, when you can lay out the facts in the future. I think you make different decisions today, and you feel more confident about it.

[00:15:13] Tyler: Yeah, that's great. You're speaking my language as a financial coach. That's, that's kind of why I latched onto that. I think, right.

[00:15:20] Steve: Yeah I love this. It sounds like sort of a combination of the things that Tyler and I both do in one, you know, like running the numbers, but also the, the coaching, the emotional side of it, the, the, the personal side it's, I mean, you know, the title of the podcast, it's not about the money, but it kind of, this is an example of that where you need to understand the money.

To know what's going on, but it's the, the decisions you're making are not about the money per se. It's, it's about your life. This is your life.

[00:15:52] Erica: Yeah. And I also see that, I had an example where a client was going into [00:16:00] sales meetings, and I could tell that she had, these were big four figure sales meetings that she was trying to lock in, And she was just had, it wasn't about the money per se. It was about the feeling of going into this meeting of like, Oh, I don't know if this client is going to sign this 50, 000 deal, maybe I should not get down to 40, 000 so I can get the deal.

And when we really mapped out what that looked like, whether she was going to sign a 50, 000 deal or 20 or an 80, when we, when we were able to see it on paper, if you will, in the future, all of a sudden she. Her confidence changed into that meeting and she was like, Oh, well, actually I don't need to necessarily sell the 50, 000 offer.

I could, I could sell the 20, 000 and be fine. And so if that's what I get, that's fine for me financially and for my family. I think this client really needs the 50, 000 package for what they're actually trying to do. And so, [00:17:00] but she knew that she could go in there and sell 50, 000. And her, her family's grocery bill wasn't going to be affected by, by whether she sold 50 or 20, she was going to be fine either way.

And it gave her this confidence to walk into that sales meeting and genuinely tell the client what she thought was the best solution for them without fearing the personal ramifications of what that meant for the trickle down effect into, into her pay.

[00:17:25] Tyler: Yes. I think there's actually a whole new level of confidence that comes when you're able to kind of separate the personal, like make it not personal, it's business. And I know that's kind of a cliche in the way you're talking about it. I haven't thought of it exactly in that way before. Like. Yeah. Anyway, that's a great story.

Thanks for sharing.

[00:17:47] Steve: That's a topic we should get, get into a little more on this podcast. We haven't talked a whole lot about selling, but that's a, that's a critical piece of, of doing that. And there's a whole psychology around it of like, You know, understanding how much do I actually [00:18:00] need and can I go into this conversation with the confidence to ask for what I'm worth, what I think the client wants, but understanding that, you know, it's going to be fine.

Whatever happens, that's really powerful.

Erica's business journey
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[00:18:11] Tyler: So Erica, I'm actually really curious. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your background and how you got, you started your business and you know, what led you to this field?

[00:18:21] Erica: Yeah, so I have a harried background, if you will. I actually have a very traditional background that turned untraditional about halfway through. I, you know, went to school for accounting and finance, got my CPA. I started at a big four public accounting firm right out of college. Spent about two, three years there, which is, if you know public accounting, Uh, kind of the point of you're either in or you're out.

It's a grueling, profession to start off. It's fantastic. It will teach you a ton, but it's a lot of hours during, during tax season. And so left that for, I actually went to corporate Walgreens after that [00:19:00] and spent the rest of my corporate career bouncing around there in a lot of different, mostly finance roles.

And so I. Just was able to see financial planning and analysis there. I did some fixed assets accounting, helped out on a number of business units there and just really got a bootcamp in corporate finance and in forecasting. Really enjoyed it. Very much enjoyed it actually. And. intersected with life at the same time.

We had, my husband and I had our first child, during that time and, eventually our second child and it was. Very, I learned very quickly how difficult it was to have two full time parents with big careers and two little humans that needed you constantly. And, they won, the little humans won. Uh, I, I chose them.

It was just, it was a really difficult season and [00:20:00] I went through some, some burnout actually in my, in that corporate role. And it really taught me of what I truly valued and what I could have in the future and what I couldn't. And I very quickly realized that I could come back and be a corporate finance VP when I was 50, but I could not make my littles, little again, I could not make them five and one again ever. And if I wanted that, then that was the time I needed to have that. And so I made a difficult decision. It wasn't an easy decision to, to leave corporate, um, completely left and went home and I was quote, just mom for two years, because if anybody is a stay at home parent, it is not a easy job either, but it was, you It is not, but it was, it was the job I wanted at that time.

And, uh, to be quite honest, it was easier than what I was doing before. Being a, being a shuttle mom [00:21:00] and a full time corporate finance, uh, person was, uh, was actually harder on me than getting to sit and snuggle with my littles and make peanut butter and jellies and get them on the bus and play and it was a fantastic time.

I did that solely for two years and eventually desperately missed doing accounting and I accidentally started this business on a whim. Accidentally got my first client. I was actually in my daughter's taekwondo class. And the teacher, the owner of the business was just this really good energy. I don't know if you ever meet somebody where you're like, Oh, I really like that person's energy.

So I talked to her after class one day and I said, Hey, if you ever need help with accounting, I, I do that. I mean, she didn't know my background and this was a small, very small business. And I said, if you ever need help with accounting, I do that. Let me know if you need help. And she said, great. When can you meet? was [00:22:00] like, Oh, okay. And so I picked her up as a QuickBooks bookkeeping client right away. And, um, my kids were still little. And so I just committed that. My business was only going to grow as fast as our kids did, uh, which it feels like they grow fast, but when you're trying to grow a business, they actually grew very slowly.

And so my business grew very slowly as well as the result of that, but it was a perfect balance of I only worked and I only took on as many clients as basically my, my kids school schedule. And if you know that a three year old preschool is barely out of the house, uh, I barely had time to work. And so that is how many clients I had is just one for a number of years.

And then it, it grew with them and grew to the size it is now they're 12 and eight now. And that is, yeah, my, my business has grown with them.

[00:22:55] Tyler: Oh, that's wonderful. What a cool story. And I, I feel like that resonated with me [00:23:00] because I don't know, Steve and I, we're, we're kind of taking this angle on things where we have full time jobs, we have like our regular jobs and we're kind of, you know, doing this entrepreneurship thing on the side and I would count being a mom absolutely as a full time job.

So you kind of did the same thing. Right. And, and I just, I love how you, figured out what your priorities were first, being with your children in your case, and then you kind of restricted the growth of your business to, to align with those values as it grew. And I, I guess I wanted to ask, like, do you have any regrets about that?

Or are you really glad you did it that way? Like I, because one of the things I run into is kind of maybe a desire To grow things faster and having to remind myself there's a time for everything. And, you know, remember who you are, remember what, what you're trying to do here. I'm just kind of curious if you could talk a little bit more about that, because you've lived it.

Yeah,

[00:23:55] Erica: Yeah, it's not easy. It is surely not easy. [00:24:00] And I went through, you know, I said it as if it was very nonchalant that I, Oh, I just decided to leave my, my corporate job. But it was very difficult mentally to get to a place where I was okay with walking away from a very high salary, walking away from the thought that like my, my parents put me through college and now I was walking away from What was the result of that?

That felt, that had a lot of emotion behind it. I was walking away from a title and if I'm being honest, I had a lot of pride in, in my title at work and in my salary. And it was, it's hard to decouple, it's, it's hard to realize that your self worth is in the wrong place. Let's just put it like that. Uh, and that was very true of me. It was, and a lot of times we don't have to realize that. We just. Do our jobs, live our lives, and nobody ever questions [00:25:00] like, well, what does that job mean to you? And when you're considering completely walking away from it, you have to, for lack of a better term, have a come to Jesus with like, what does that mean to you?

Cause you're about to walk away from it. And for me, it meant way more than I proudly say at this point, because it was really hard to decouple, um, honestly, my worth from that job and the work I did and what people thought of me at work. Cause what did people think of me at home? Well, they kind of just bossed me around to get them Cheerios. And that was very different than how I felt at work. And so it, that actually took a lot of, a lot of processing to get to the point where I was okay with

doing something different that didn't involve money. a lot of money and a big title and this pride that I had put on that maybe was undeserved and, and how I wanted to live my values out.[00:26:00]

And so that took, that was a lot of, that was a lot of mental processing and internal work that happened before I got to the point of, and now I'm going to stay home and make peanut butter and jellies. say it jokingly, but that it was a lot of

internal struggle.

Growing slowly, on purpose
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[00:26:17] Tyler: it was serious. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think for that reason and many other reasons, that's a really important story for people to hear. I think you're not alone in that. I mean, I occasionally work with clients who are in a similar situation where they're making a lot of money, but they're not happy with the exchange that's being made in terms of their time and their stress levels usually is, is what it comes down to. And so they are kind of grappling with a similar decoupling process. I'm not saying it's the same, but you know, you could imagine a similar type of, uh, scenario. And you know, not everyone makes the same choice, right? Some people decide to, to carry on and, [00:27:00] and that's fine for them if that's what they want.

But yeah, that's such a cool story. Thank you for sharing. Mm

[00:27:05] Erica: And so I will say that as in now, as you talk about the potential struggle of like growing slowly, which is surely what I've done in this business. I have to go. It's the same feelings. It's well, I could grow faster and I could make more and I could have more clients. But what will that look like holistically in my life?

And is that still what I want? And is that right for the season of life? And I have to constantly remind myself that like, this is what I'm choosing because this is the best answer holistically for this point in my life.

[00:27:39] Steve: That's really good to hear.

[00:27:41] Tyler: I couldn't say it better myself. Yeah, I think you should be in charge of this podcast. So I'm going to be quiet.

Would you rather make another $50k or have an extra 10 hours a week?
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[00:27:47] Steve: Yeah. Something I've always admired about you is, is the boundaries you have where, where work can take up this much of my day and the rest of it is already set aside for family and having fun and giving back [00:28:00] and those kinds of things. And so it's good to hear like all the work that you did to get to that point where you can be at peace with the way things are.

[00:28:09] Erica: Thanks. Yeah, you're right. I have. extremely strict boundaries on my schedule so that I can not go back to a place of burnout. I've experienced that before. Burnout does not feel good. And so I have a very much incentive to not go back there. And And I look back on my weeks every week and I'm like, am I happy how I spent my time?

Yeah. Could I have gotten more done at work? Totally. I could always have spent more time working because there's always work to be done. But when I look backwards on the week, I see that I made it to the kids track meet and I pick, I was at school pickup every day. And those things are just as important to me as getting one more thing off my to do list at work.

[00:28:51] Tyler: Do you ever find yourself having those kinds of conversations with your clients or is that out of scope? I'm just kind of curious what, cause you know, I, I picture, you know, working [00:29:00] with business owners. It seems like the demographic for the kind of struggle we're talking about right now.

[00:29:06] Erica: Yeah, I actually just had an interesting conversation with a client. We're starting to, you know, it's kind of a triage. You, you get in there and we're worried about paying yourself and paying the IRS. That's kind of like step one is get, get the house in order. And then as we get to that place, then we start peeling back the onion of like, what else can we talk about?

And what other decisions are you making in your business? And I had a client recently tell me. Oh, I need to put in this new, um, service offering or this new product for my clients because this will make me more money. And I kindly kind of pushed back and I was like, well, why do you want to make more money?

Because you've already built this business that's growing. And now you're saying, let's put on one more factor of it and grow that as well. And I was like, is it because you think [00:30:00] You need more money? Like we haven't necessarily assessed what your business looks like in three years. And if what you've already built gets you to a place where you want it in three years, do you need to build this other thing?

Because that's going to take time and energy, even if it's a quote, easy thing, right? Even easy things balloon out into, into hard things. And, and it was, it was kind of a, a show stopping question. Because they didn't know, they didn't know the answer to that because I think it's ingrained in us to like grow and grow and build and build as business owners when really, again, back to the forecasting piece, if we can prove out that what you've built to date satisfies your personal needs for the next long term, you know, three years from now, you're going to be okay.

Does that make you decide to not build that new thing that potentially could cause you more profit. Which money is great, but to your point, not at the [00:31:00] expense of stress, mental health, um, family time, if that's important to you, time to give back to your community if that's important to you. And we don't often put this decision point in front of ourselves, or nobody puts it in front of us of like, would you rather make another 50, 000 next year, or would you rather have 10 hours a week to, to use how you'd like? Nobody's posing that question to us. And culturally we've been raised to believe that getting 50, 000 more is always the best answer.

[00:31:35] Tyler: Yeah, yeah,

[00:31:36] Erica: that's how Americans have been, have been bred, right?

[00:31:41] Tyler: yeah. And from my experience working with people on their personal finances, they will spend, they will find a way to spend the extra 50, 000 like that, you know? So that's not a problem.

[00:31:52] Erica: Somebody's always willing to take our money.

[00:31:54] Tyler: Yes.

[00:31:55] Erica: I can, I can always talk more about working less. [00:32:00]

That

[00:32:00] Tyler: could see why you liked the book Die With Zero. It's coming together now. That's

[00:32:05] Erica: Well, that book was poignantly, I don't know if you want to start talking about that in terms of this, I'll go on a diatribe about that if you wanted.

[00:32:15] Steve: We, I mean, it's relevant to the topic. This, I thought this was going to be sort of like, what is a fractional CFO? And it's, it's really become like. How do you grow your business at the right pace so that it fits the life you want to have? Uh, which I really like.

[00:32:31] Erica: Yeah, I'm finding that in myself, I tend to be more passionate about that topic then. necessarily the fractional CFO work that I do. Well, it's all in the same, right.

But I think there's a lot of sales out there that is all around, get a fractional CFO so you can blow up your business and make so much more profit.

But nobody's really talking about what a, what a lifestyle could be with the money that you're able to generate from that business. Like maybe you don't [00:33:00] need to make seven figures to have the life that you want. Maybe. Maybe 150, 000 take home is all your family needs. And you could work 15 hours a week making that if you build your business right.

And then what does your life look like? That might look, that's going to look really different than a seven figure business who's got a team of 10 and works 50 hours a week. It's not wrong. If that's, if that's your end all be all passion, and that's what you want to build, then go build the best one of those.

But if a lifestyle for you looks better, like 15 hours a week, 150, 000 in profit, pick up kids from the bus or serve in your community or coach high school track, whatever it may be, whatever your thing is, go ride your horse for 10 hours a week. I don't know. Everybody's got their own thing. Then I think the, the decision point and the confidence in those decisions becomes a lot clearer when you have those [00:34:00] options in front of you.

[00:34:02] Tyler: Yeah. It reminds me of a concept I think I got from a book called How We Decide, I could be wrong on that. I'll figure it out and put a link in the show notes or whatever. But it, the concept is, uh, uh, satisficing versus optimizing or maximizing when it comes to making decisions. And, you know, a satisficer will decide ahead of time what their requirements are, and then make the decision to do the first thing that they find that meets their requirements.

Whereas an, an optimizer will keep looking for, uh, uh, An opportunity that's a little bit better or a little bit better or a little bit better, like infinitely kind of, right? Um, and it also kind of reminds me of like that, that concept in, in product design, where in theory, a good product owner would start with, what are the requirements that our customers have?

And let's build that product instead of trying to put every possible, you know, tool in the Swiss army knife, whether or not somebody needs it. I kind of, I don't know if that [00:35:00] parallel makes sense, but you know, it's, it's about kind of, if you decide first what you want your life to look like, what kind of experiences and emotions you want to be included in your life, it's a lot easier to build towards that than just more, more, more forever.

[00:35:16] Erica: I think that's a great point, and to your point, you will always find somewhere to spend the money. If you make an extra 10, 000, you will find 10, 000 of things to spend on, right?

[00:35:27] Tyler: Yep.

[00:35:28] Erica: Versus, well, what if this is all I need in my life? And then that is all I, if I earn, if I work hard enough to earn that amount, am I done then?

And I think, again, culturally, we're very uncomfortable with being done working. We're ingrained to work hard, play hard, right? Like that's in us, like no pain, no gain, all of these phrases that we've been fed is tells us to like, keep working because you could do better, right? A hundred percent attendance in [00:36:00] third grade, you're going to get a certificate.

[00:36:02] Tyler: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, and you know, for some people, I guess it's worth saying that some people, uh, what they want will be more than what some other people want. And that's okay. Like we're not here to say what anyone should want, but I love this idea that it, maybe it's okay, maybe you should figure out what you want, not what your upbringing or society or the American culture, the American dream tells you, you have to want, that's kind of what I'm getting out of this.

[00:36:28] Erica: I, that's great. We should put it on a sign and sell it at Hobby Lobby. I

Die With Zero
---

[00:36:35] Tyler: awesome. Apparently, Erica and I read the same book recently. She read it far longer ago than I did, but it's called Die With Zero. And it seems like there are principles from that book that we've kind of been circling around in this conversation.

Erica, you mentioned you love the book and it's really impacted your thinking over the last year or so. Is there anything you could share with us about what you've learned from that book and how you've applied it for your business and in your personal [00:37:00] life?

[00:37:00] Erica: Yeah, I think so definitely. If you haven't read the book and even on page 10, I think he tells who is the book written for. And, uh, it was basically written for me, I think, because he writes in, he writes in that intro, he says, this book is written for the person who is basically an extremely good saver and a very bad spender.

And that is me, to a T, that I'm very good at planning, right? Like, that is my profession. I plan out money for people. It's literally your job.

And I plan, I'm very good at planning out money for, For my personal life, right? Like my, you could joke that I know what the water bill is going to be 36 months from now, cause I have a spreadsheet that tells me how much it's going to be, you know, 5 percent every year for whatever.

And so I'm very good at stashing away money. I'm very bad at letting it go. And I've realized that. And so this book is all about like, don't [00:38:00] accidentally be so great at working and saving that you don't, that either a, you work. So hard, harder than you needed to, because you are working harder than the life that actually made you happy for your needs and two, go out and live life.

And so I read this book and, and I just thought it was so poignantly directed towards me and what I needed to hear. Uh, ironically, my husband, who is also a CPA, he is a wonderful CPA. We're both great with money. We have very different, thoughts and mindsets about money. And so he read the book and he was like, duh, no, not duh.

This was monumental for me. He's like, no, no, no. I know how it, how you would receive it, but like, I already knew this. And I was like, okay, well, some of us needed a little more coaching than others. But I think I just really, it really made me appreciate and back to, you know, the seasons of life we were in, he talks a lot about time buckets and Really [00:39:00] monumental for me to think like your, your seasons of life are little time buckets and those are going to be different for everybody.

I think of one of my time bucket as two kids live at home and that time bucket is going to sound morbid. It's going to die eventually, right? Like at, at there's some point where that's not going to exist anymore and I need to spend my time and money and efforts. enjoying that time bucket right now when there's two kids at home who think it's fun to go camping, who want to go hiking outside, who want to go to the pool.

Like, I can't get that back. And so I'd better spend my time, money and efforts well during that season because there's going to be a new season that's going to look different and we're going to spend our time, money and efforts differently in that season. But this is the one I need to focus on right now.

And, and it really, um, it was really helpful. In reframing the efforts that I put in both personally and [00:40:00] business wise in my life right now.

[00:40:03] Tyler: You know, that time bucket concept is probably the most impactful thing from that book for me personally, actually, because I had never thought of it that way, first of all, um, and, you know, I'd heard things like, well, don't wait until you retire to travel because once you're old, it's harder to travel.

Like I was kind of, I'd heard that idea before, right? But, but I never thought of breaking your whole life down into the time buckets and saying of all the things I want to do in my life, which time bucket is the best fit for that type of activity, and it actually totally changed the way I approached, uh, my idea of like how much I want to travel.

I know that's kind of a, Cliche thing to talk about. But I, when I talk about travel, I don't talk, I'm not, I'm not the kind of person that likes going to Europe or like going to the Bahamas or anything. I know I'm very boring. It's disappointing. Sorry, everybody, but I really do like going on road trips and visiting friends and family and other States.

Um, and I realized that, you know, thanks to this time bucket idea that [00:41:00] right now where I'm working. A job that's remote. I have the flexibility to do that. I should probably do that now because who knows if I'll always be working remotely or, you know, have the flexibility to do that, to do that. And that was like super life changing for me.

So by the time I get. older, quote unquote, whatever that means, you know, I will have done a lot of the kind of travel that I really like to do in a time where I had the flexibility to do it. And like, that's not even so much a financial thing. It's just a matching the time of life and the circumstances with the right activity, if that makes sense.

So that was, that was a big breakthrough for me.

[00:41:37] Steve: It sounds like I need to read this

book if this is describing me as well. So,

[00:41:44] Erica: Well, I like, I like your example of it. Totally. Okay. To each their own, you don't want to go to the Bahamas, but wouldn't it? And I think his point in the book is, wouldn't it be a waste for you to work hard? So you could save up enough money for a trip to the Bahamas that you saw on [00:42:00] Instagram that everybody else was taking that didn't actually make you happy when all you really needed was gas money, road trip, you know, like stops along the way.

And like, that would truly make you happy. Well, then don't pick up the side gig or don't pick up the extra hours. That's going to require the Bahamas trip. Actually go spend your time, go do the road trips that make you happy and then be happy with it and stop kinda.

Miss, mismatching your, your money and your enjoyment, right?

[00:42:30] Tyler: right. Yeah. And maybe if I'm lucky when I do get to retirement age, I will, maybe I'll, maybe sitting on a beach somewhere with a, with a nice drink will be more my speed, you know? And who knows? Who knows?

[00:42:43] Erica: Who knows? All we know is what, what we like right now, right?

[00:42:47] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:49] Steve: Well, Erica, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. This has been a really lovely conversation. I've learned a lot.

[00:42:56] Erica: Thanks so much for having me. This was really great.[00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Steve: If folks would like to get in touch with you, what would you recommend?

[00:43:04] Erica: Yeah. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time over there, or you can reach me at ericagoodie. com. Um,

[00:43:12] Steve: all right, we will pick up next time with another interview in this series, and in the meantime you can email us hello at notaboutmoney. com, and we'll see you again on another episode of It's Not About The Money.