It's Not About The Money

A train wreck of email
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[00:00:00]

The travails of corporate job email management
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[00:00:00] Steve: I've, I've gotten two emails from mailing lists that I subscribe to within the past week talking about SuperHuman, the, the email app.

And so we need to talk about that at some

[00:00:11] Tyler: yes. That's,

[00:00:13] Steve: I don't know if I can I can, uh, stomach the $30 a month, but it sounds amazing.

[00:00:19] Tyler: I couldn't either until I finally did. And then. It was the best thing ever, although I don't use it anymore because, my employer locks that down pretty tightly. And so the whole point of it for me was having everything in one place. And if you ruin that, it's ruined, you know? So now I use Outlook.

[00:00:36] Steve: Outlook.

[00:00:37] Tyler: Probably should, yeah, I probably shouldn't admit that out loud, but you know, it's honestly slightly better than it once was.

[00:00:43] Steve: Yeah, outlook

[00:00:45] Tyler: gets the job done. Yeah, it gets, it's, it's surprisingly, uh, this is neither here nor there, but of all the mobile clients for email, I've also landed on Outlook because I actually, at this moment in time, prefer it to everything out there except [00:01:00] superhuman.

But

[00:01:01] Steve: fascinating.

[00:01:02] Tyler: yeah, I know, I

[00:01:04] Steve: I'm just using Apple mail on my laptop and my phone. And my iPad. Uh, except for work emails and those I just keep in Gmail because stuff tends to sit in the inbox there for a while of like, the attorney asked this question and I need to get back to it, but I'm not in that project until next week and so it's just got to sit there. I don't know, we could, we could debate about, uh, inbox zero there, but that's how, that's how, that's how that inbox runs. Most of my other ones are not quite that bad. So anyway,

[00:01:37] Tyler: No,

[00:01:38] Steve: email

[00:01:39] Tyler: not. No

[00:01:40] Steve: this is what folks tune in

[00:01:42] Tyler: Yeah, I was going to say

[00:01:43] Steve: inside baseball stuff here.

Hello there dear listener. I am Steve.

[00:01:53] Tyler: And I'm Tyler and welcome to another episode of It's Not About The Money. The podcast where we help you gain the clarity you [00:02:00] need to run a successful small business.

[00:02:02] Steve: Tyler has a financial coaching practice. I run a tax business. We are both small business owners like you. And this podcast is our exploration of entrepreneurship one episode at a time. And this is, uh, my attempt at editing together an episode out of one big long recording session that, uh, sort of went off the rails.

So we're just going to pick up right where we left off last time.

[00:02:26] Tyler: Yeah. The funny thing is I just, I've learned over the years, like, uh, not everyone, uh, obsesses about how they manage their email inbox, Steve. So I usually don't have anyone to talk about this with. So this could be dangerous.

[00:02:38] Steve: what I'm here for.

[00:02:39] Tyler: Yeah.

[00:02:40] Steve: This is the stuff we like to geek out about.

[00:02:43] Tyler: Yeah. We could just, let's do, this is a side note. Maybe we do. Yeah. We, a whole episode about email, not just clients, whatever, but it's like all of it, email management, pros and cons of inbox zero type stuff,

[00:02:59] Steve: Mm hmm.

[00:02:59] Tyler: [00:03:00] mean, that's like a rabbit hole. That could be fun though. I

[00:03:03] Steve: How, how do I get myself to only check email once a day?

[00:03:07] Tyler: Oh my word. Please solve that for

[00:03:09] Steve: I would love to be able to do that. And I just can't seem to manage it.

[00:03:14] Tyler: Neither can I. I think I'm addicted, honestly, because I think I could do it. I think I'm fully in the dopamine

[00:03:21] Steve: Oh, email is absolutely intermittent reinforcement. Like sometimes you'll check it and there's nothing, and sometimes you'll check it and there's, there's three things from people that you like

and you wanted to hear from.

[00:03:31] Tyler: Yep.

[00:03:32] Steve: And sometimes it's an angry client email. You never know. And so you just keep coming back because there might be something interesting in there

[00:03:39] Tyler: And there might be something actually super important and urgent. That's the thing that kills me. I wish there was a way to like, get those, like, cause like for the majority of my work. Uh, you know, it's pretty email heavy. My corporate job as corporate jobs tend to be, and, you know, I also manage a team and we also deal with a lot of external [00:04:00] suppliers and things and, and, you know, with the business and everything.

So there's a lot, a lot going on in email and all that being true, there have been periods where I've tried really hard to check twice a day. I could never do the once a day, but I was like, you know, once a certain time in the afternoon so that I was always. Catching those important ones before too much time went by.

I want to, I have to believe that's possible. Cause like email is also like the best form of procrastination because you feel so productive and yet

you're doing nothing. Ah,

[00:04:40] Steve: for my day job, several days a week, I have been going to do code review in an attorney's office in a, in a room where I cannot bring my phone, I don't have internet access, I'm just there to read the code and try and figure out what it does. So, uh, if I want to check my email, I have to leave the room and go back to the [00:05:00] breakout room where my laptop is, and then I can see it. So I only end up checking email a couple of times in the whole

[00:05:08] Tyler: The second you walk out of the room, you're just like,

[00:05:09] Steve: the second I, it's, yes. How did you know? But,

[00:05:13] Tyler: Cause that's what I would do.

[00:05:14] Steve: uh, yes, yes. But, uh, the point is like nothing, nothing has exploded.

No clients are angry because I did not respond within an hour. It just, it, it's fine. It's fine. So it's just the, uh, the, I don't know, self control or the, the,

[00:05:33] Tyler: The

[00:05:33] Steve: the management of the dopamine.

[00:05:36] Tyler: It's like expectations management. It's like not an easy thing. This is, you're never going to do this by accident unless you just don't care, which might actually be part of the solution. But, but, but, uh, yeah. You know, I, Oh, shoot. Yeah. That, that, that, that, that was, I had a deep thought.

I was like, well, maybe I just shouldn't care. That's not going to say. Oh, there's also a surprising number of emails [00:06:00] that like resolve themselves. I've noticed within a couple of hours

[00:06:03] Steve: huh. Uh huh.

[00:06:04] Tyler: and like, I'm not going to get on here and advocate for doing this. You know, you, you, you. Don't do this to your boss, everybody.

I mean, I, and I don't do it to my boss just for the record. I'm always very, very prompt on replying to my boss, but like, you can kind of tell if you're like CC'd on a giant thread or something sometimes, or, you know, if you're just like, I'm not, I'm not going to dive in on this right away because I feel like there's something else going on here anyway, or the best, the blessed, the most blessed email of all, someone sends you a question and before you have a chance to reply to it, they're like, Oh, nevermind.

I figured it out.

[00:06:40] Steve: Yeah.

[00:06:42] Tyler: Those are the best.

[00:06:44] Steve: Love those.

[00:06:45] Tyler: email.

[00:06:47] Steve: I have also found that, uh, when I let unread emails pile up in the inbox, it is easier to not compulsively check my email because like, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff in [00:07:00] there. It's fine. I can't, I can't get through them all right now. And so there's just, yeah, whatever. Leave them there. You don't need to check them.

Where when the, when it's all cleared out and there's a new one, it's like, Oh, whoa, what's this? It must be important because there's only one in here and it's unread. But if there's 20, because I haven't checked since this morning, like,

[00:07:20] Tyler: See, we're getting worse. We're coming back to this idea of like, maybe you just shouldn't care. Maybe inbox zero is the problem.

Newsletters and email open statistics
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[00:07:28] Steve: I have started moving newsletters. Uh, off to readwisereader, so they just come in through the feed there and then I'll just go check the feed when I, when I'm in the mood to read things and they don't clutter up the inbox.

[00:07:45] Tyler: I do that as well. I basically have a no newsletter policy for my personal inbox. I do subscribe to newsletters and I enjoy many of them, but I do it the same way you do. Like, it's like there's a special app for that. There's a special time for that. Anyway, you know, uh, [00:08:00] I've been running an email list for my coaching business for a while now.

It's not a gigantic one, but it's like closer to a thousand than 500 people on there, which blows my mind. But

[00:08:12] Steve: Yeah.

[00:08:14] Tyler: One of the most shocking things that I never expected, and I kind of thought might be fake news until this conversation right now, is that like, when you send out a mass email, as long as it's not like the middle of the night or something, there is a sizable portion of your email list that opens it within like 10 seconds.

And that disturbs

[00:08:33] Steve: Actual, actual humans opening it

[00:08:35] Tyler: I mean, that's what I thought. I thought it was all bots. Right. Cause I'm like, how could this be? Like what? I

[00:08:39] Steve: Right.

[00:08:40] Tyler: So I really did think that, uh, and there are some, like, I'm pretty sure there are some, uh, either bots or I think, uh, different email clients, uh, react differently to, or I don't know.

So like, for example, I use Outlook on mobile and if it's a long email, it has like that read more button [00:09:00] at the bottom. And so if I'm reading it in like the default view and then I get to the end, I have to click the read more button. I think that counts as like two views potentially, or two opens, or I know there's, there's like weird little quirks, right?

Because email is a hard thing to track. And companies like Apple have really cracked down on privacy and like allowing a third party to know whether an email has been opened or, so it's very inaccurate. There's a lot of like ambiguity and

inaccurate

[00:09:27] Steve: I, think my Apple mail clients go, uh, like preload the images through their, whatever VPN backend, something, something. So, uh, usually by the time I open the email, everything has already been downloaded long ago.

[00:09:41] Tyler: Mm hmm.

[00:09:42] Steve: Uh, and so I don't know whether any metrics are emitting when I actually open up the email and read it with my eyeballs.

[00:09:50] Tyler: Well, if you're using Apple mail and I had, I don't know the latest news on this. So I, but I've heard through the grapevine, the Apple is one that has kind of, they've done even things like UTM [00:10:00] scrambling. I get allegedly, I don't know this firsthand, so please, but you know, which is where, you know, that's the, the, the, uh, appendage, no, the, uh, where you added

[00:10:11] Steve: query string at the end of a URL.

[00:10:13] Tyler: Yes, this is, yes. That allows, you know, people to know where the source was, what the campaign was, all that stuff. Um, and they're engaging in some, uh, well, you know, Apple's trying to, uh, build up their brand around privacy as we all know. And so I think they're actually taking some steps with email that make it hard for, uh, you know, your email service provider to know what's going on on the other end.

But, all that said, uh, I've come to believe, uh, through, you know, uh, Staring at data a lot that a lot of them are real because a lot of them are people like friends and family that I just know, and they, I know they subscribed to my list because they're my friends and family. And, uh, and then other people, you just kind of like, you notice patterns as you stare at the data long enough.

Um, and so I, I do, I am convinced that there's a few email addresses on my list that are, they don't behave like real people. Like they'll open up an email, like a bunch of times, like click every link in the [00:11:00] email.

[00:11:00] Steve: Oh yeah.

[00:11:01] Tyler: I'm like, that doesn't,

[00:11:02] Steve: No, nobody's actually

[00:11:03] Tyler: yeah, nobody's doing that. Uh, but anyway, the point, sorry, that was a very long tangent, but basically

Well, I, it just shocked me.

So I think like what this, this observation that I have that within, you know, the first few seconds of sending a mass email, there's a, there's a significant, and it's not everybody, it's not half the list or anything, but you know, it's like, and, and it's going to be relative to the size of your list, but, uh, well, Hey.

On a list that we're building for my other business, which is around 3, 000 subscribers, it was 500 of those people. And it's like almost right away within the first few minutes had opened it. And so I find that, and it must be because everyone's over there just having their little dopamine fiesta that we were just talking about.

Right. Like, I don't

[00:11:49] Steve: Right, right. Like, uh, like, do people get push notifications for new emails on their phone? I think there are still people out there

that

[00:11:56] Tyler: do that.

Apple Mail
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[00:11:57] Steve: I mean, like, I have that set up for, [00:12:00] like, folks that I care about, like, that don't usually email me. So if they email me, I want to know about it right away.

Family members, mostly, on that list, but, uh But yeah, like, I would not do that for work emails, like, unless, unless like I know some, I'm expecting something and I'm going to go cook dinner. Occasionally I will like turn that on briefly, but not under normal circumstances.

[00:12:26] Tyler: Is it true that Apple Mail, at least on mobile, actually doesn't do push? It only pulls every 15 minutes? I've heard that. Or if you

[00:12:33] Steve: yes, but it depends on the email provider. Let me go check.

[00:12:41] Tyler: Like, I think it only I heard recently that the client only fetches email at a certain cadence. Which could be good for the dopamine problem, if you weren't overriding it by swiping down every 30 seconds.

[00:12:56] Steve: Okay. Um, it does [00:13:00] support push, but. Gmail, let's see, those ones are all Gmail based. Uh, Gmail does not have a push option, it only has fetch and manual. But iCloud and this other one, uh, which is just a regular old SMTP server, that one does have push. I don't know, but yeah, I have it set up for every 15 minutes it will go fetch emails.

[00:13:25] Tyler: Can you, can you adjust that? Could you do like once every four hours?

[00:13:29] Steve: Yeah, uh, yeah, the, the options are, uh, every 15 minutes, every 30 minutes, hourly or manually. There's also an automatically. I don't know what that does.

[00:13:40] Tyler: Interesting. Well, uh, I don't know if this is the time or the place, but I'd love to get your review of Apple Mail because I've, I've, uh, haven't tried it for a long time. Last time I tried it, it really, I couldn't do it. I'm going to, I'm about to sound like a crazy person. Or a really incompetent technology person, both of which could be [00:14:00] true.

I mean, I'm not saying it's not true, but I seem to remember that for certain, like, let's say I had a Gmail account and a Office 365 account, the swiping actions were like different depending on which account the email was from. And that is insane.

[00:14:19] Steve: uh,

[00:14:20] Tyler: I don't know. Like, like, for example, you can only have it swipe left to be archived for Gmail.

Swipe left would have to be delete for Outlook or something. I mean, I don't remember what it was.

It's been a long

[00:14:32] Steve: well,

[00:14:33] Tyler: And, and there was like no amount of fiddling with the settings that I could do to have everything just be swipe left to archive or swipe right to delete.

[00:14:40] Steve: that would be maddening. Uh, no, but all of, all of the, all three of my main. Email accounts are Gmail, so they all have,

[00:14:56] Tyler: Oh, so they'd be all the same.

I, [00:15:00] I remember thinking it had something to do with the fact, you know, Gmail kind of like pioneered the archive versus delete paradigm when they gave everyone a bunch of free storage way back in the day.

[00:15:09] Steve: When two gigabytes was like, well, wow, we'll never figure it, fill that up.

[00:15:13] Tyler: Yeah. Well, it wasn't one. What was it when they made that huge? Cause Yahoo would give it a bunch of free storage and then Gmail just came in and just was like, An order of magnitude more or something. I don't, I don't remember, but, but, uh, and so I think for a long time, maybe Microsoft wasn't like just in there.

I don't, it's not an API. What would you say? Like, they just didn't have the concept of archive until more recently. My memory tells me that's true. Is it

actually true. I don't know. Like you, you had to like manually move stuff into folders.

[00:15:44] Steve: Yeah. Depending on the email client, you could say, I want to treat this folder as. So don't move things to the trash, move them into this folder instead. But it wasn't exactly the same as what Gmail means when it says archive.[00:16:00]

[00:16:01] Tyler: Right. Yeah. Well, I got, I, you know, it's interesting. I recently started listening to a new podcast, which is something that I very rarely do, as you know, because ironically, maybe I'm not much of a podcast listener, but I am now because I went on a giant road trip anyway.

[00:16:18] Steve: yeah.

[00:16:19] Tyler: Um, it's called Comfort Zone and I think it's put, produced by Mac Stories, that website.

Anyway, the point of it is it's like three nerds that talk about We're two nerds that talk

[00:16:30] Steve: Uh

[00:16:31] Tyler: and, uh, it's, they, they give each other challenges related to their technology use that push them out of their comfort zone. It's kind of interesting. Like I'm, I'm sort of like actually really into it.

[00:16:41] Steve: Hmm.

[00:16:42] Tyler: extremely nerdy and I love it.

But anyway, um, I think I want to do a challenge for myself to try Apple mail, at least on my phone, because if you're using it, I feel like that's a strong endorsement and I, I, I.

[00:16:57] Steve: Yeah.

[00:16:57] Tyler: hope that my experience using it doesn't make [00:17:00] me, doesn't damage my opinion of you, . I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. because I've kind of,

[00:17:06] Steve: I've been using it on my phone for years. So, not exclusively, but Anyway, yes,

[00:17:16] Tyler: Do you use it on your computer as well?

[00:17:18] Steve: yeah. Yeah on my Mac. My day job is a Windows computer, so I

[00:17:22] Tyler: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:22] Steve: it there, but

[00:17:24] Tyler: See, I'm one of those weirdos. I guess I, I didn't think I was a weirdo, but I, the more I talk to people, the more I wonder if I am is I love a unified inbox. Like I want.

Everything in one place, work, school, school, whatever, you know, work, uh, personal, business, I just want to all there. And yes, I will sometimes click into the specific account.

So like, if I'm at work, I don't want to be seeing my business account or my personal account. Like, so I'll do that. Like when I'm in a mode, like, uh, you know, a working mode, but if I'm just like on my phone, casually, Like, I just [00:18:00] want to, I don't know. I, am I sick? I don't, I don't know. I just want, cause I want to be able to clean my inbox efficiently.

All like, just burn through it and get it done no matter what. What's going on? So, and so, I, might need to see a therapist. And the more I talk about this, I'm like, should I be talking about, should I be vocalizing all these things? I don't know. Cause I, cause I guess a lot of people don't like to do that.

Like they like to totally separate it. Like some people use different mail clients completely. Like they have the, you know, outlook for their work email and Gmail for their personal. That gives me like anxiety just thinking about

Email before bed
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[00:18:31] Steve: Oh, yeah. I mean, that is what I do for the day job. It's, it's just in the Gmail app

and then everything else is in the unified inbox. I do like it for everything else, but the, the day job is more like, whether because I want to turn it off after I'm done with work for the day or, uh, because things sit in the inbox for a long time or, uh, [00:19:00] or because the like client. Fires tend to come through that one, and I don't want to be thinking about them at nine o'clock at night when I'm winding down.

[00:19:10] Tyler: Oh, that's a real problem.

You know what else is a real problem, by the way, is sending an important email before bed that, you know, someone might not be excited to read. I can't do that. I've done it. I've done it several times in my career. And it's like, I don't sleep at all that night. I did it just the other day. It was terrible.

It wasn't a bad, it wasn't like super bad news or anything, but I was just like, based on the message that I'm sending and the person I'm sending it to, I know that they're probably gonna want to talk to me in the morning. Um, They're in a different time zone and they're going to want. So all night I will know subconsciously that someone on the other side of the world is like experiencing distress because of this email.

I don't know. So I avoid sending emails in the evening too. Cause I just,

[00:19:54] Steve: yeah,

but you, you wanted to send that before bed so that [00:20:00] they had a chance to read it during their daytime hours, or, you know, Or what is it?

[00:20:04] Tyler: just so I wouldn't forget.

[00:20:06] Steve: oh, well just schedule it,

[00:20:07] Tyler: Stop. I knew you were going to say that.

[00:20:09] Steve: you can write it whenever you want, but to schedule it to go out during, during business hours or

[00:20:13] Tyler: I can be better at scheduling emails. And I, you know, I, uh, Outlook now has a thing where it prompts me. If I'm writing to someone in a different time zone, I'd be like, Hey, would you, do you want to consider sending this like, you know, 2am your time, which is like their whatever morning. So yeah, I'm, I'm recovering a little bit

[00:20:30] Steve: Okay.

[00:20:31] Tyler: because as, as much as we talk about how addicted I am to checking my email, I actually expect like my expectations for other people receiving my emails.

It's like, that it's not, like, that it should be asynchronous. Like, I, I don't expect them to

[00:20:47] Steve: Yeah. I'm the same way,

[00:20:49] Tyler: So, but, but, but

[00:20:51] Steve: but for some reason I can't put that

[00:20:53] Tyler: yeah,

[00:20:53] Steve: on myself. I don't know why.

[00:20:55] Tyler: Yeah. Like if I really, if for me, if it's a urgent thing and it's like a work thing, I [00:21:00] will either call the person or like, IM them. Cause that's like an immediate thing.

Feedback thing or whatever, right? I would never email someone about something urgent at work because like, what, I don't even know if they're going to see it for 12 hours or something, you know, but anyway.

[00:21:16] Steve: Makes sense.

[00:21:19] Tyler: So you were saying before I rudely interrupted that you don't like to read stressful emails before bed. So you separate your email, your, your totally separate client, email client for your day job and everything else, personal and business and everything. Should I try that too? No, one discomfort zone at a time.

The

[00:21:38] Steve: Yeah, I mean, I don't usually check my work email on my phone in the first place, but it's just there in case I need it, because, I think you're putting me on too much of a pedestal there. But, uh, I don't know. Like, [00:22:00] the kinds of emails that I get, And the day job inbox are not usually the kind that I can respond to on the phone anyway.

They, they need, like, I've got to do a lot of writing to respond to most of those kinds of things that come through. So it's just not useful for me to read them on my phone anyway. And I don't want to like read it. And then there's like three to do's in there and I'm going to forget what they are before I come back.

And now the email is marked read. And so I've forgotten that there's even stuff in there. And so I just don't even open them up

[00:22:31] Tyler: Okay. Um, meme going around right now about how what you just said is a very millennial thing? That millennials do important emails and important things on the desktop.

[00:22:43] Steve: on the desktop.

[00:22:44] Tyler: And, but like Gen Z does everything on the phone,

even,

[00:22:49] Steve: I was not aware of that, but I have heard that, uh, we are a dying breed.

who use, uh, laptop

computers for email.

Well, using email in the first place, [00:23:00] apparently is, is a, is a millennial thing to do.

Tyler acknowledges that he might be an "Apple person" now
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[00:23:03] Tyler: this conversation is killing me. I don't know if I'm going to make it.

Um, by the way, I think we should copy the comfort zone podcast and occasionally do challenges like that for ourselves where it's like, cause I, I love the idea of concept and you know, um, there are things that I think I could benefit it from.

[00:23:19] Steve: So what kinds of things are, well, like, like you're going to try Apple mail.

[00:23:24] Tyler: Yeah, which is going to be rough, but I'm going to try it and maybe, maybe it won't be rough, but

[00:23:30] Steve: Yeah,

[00:23:30] Tyler: weird is it's kind of stemming from the, I'm going through a really, I, Steve, I have changed and I don't know if it's for the better

[00:23:37] Steve: okay.

[00:23:38] Tyler: back in the day and for a long, long time, I was like open source, cross platform, Google, Android, all, you know, none of this, you know, Ecosystem garbage.

I was like against it. I was so against it.

[00:23:50] Steve: Uh

[00:23:51] Tyler: I wanted to be able to customize my home screen. I wanted to be able to access my Evernote on any possible device. You know, that's a [00:24:00] big reason why I used Todoist in the first place, is because I could use it natively everywhere. Um, well, anyway, now I like, uh, I'm an, I'm an Apple person and I don't know how I feel about that.

Like I have an Apple computer, Apple phone, Apple watch. I just left Spotify for Apple music. I, and so Apple mail is like, definitely like that, that would be, I'm just sinking in, I'm sinking into the quicksand of, of Apple universe and, and, um, yeah, Anyway, that's a little bit of context for that.

Podcast listening
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[00:24:35] Tyler: But I haven't, I have not switched to Apple Podcasts yet.

I'm still Pocket Casts. 100%.

[00:24:39] Steve: I keep giving it a chance every once in a while and I can't.

[00:24:44] Tyler: I mean, it was, it used to be really bad.

[00:24:46] Steve: it's, it's still, I mean, it's probably fine if I, for, for some people, but not for me. No, it's, uh, I, I think it would work well if you, [00:25:00] uh, what am I trying to say?

If you don't do things the way I do.

No, no, the, just the, the, the, the, the workflow that I have for podcasts is more like a, there's an inbox of everything that I subscribe to, and I, and I will pick and choose which ones I actually want to listen to and move them into a queue.

And then I archive the rest and you can't really do that with Apple podcasts. And so it's just kind of a non starter for me these days. But if you, if you just, uh, treated podcasts more as like, Here's a bunch of things that I like and hey, I've got some time to listen. Let me dip into the stream and see what's there and just play the most recent thing from those.

I think it would work well for that kind of a use case.

[00:25:45] Tyler: Yeah. And it's interesting you say that because, That's how I've been doing it too. I just have an inbox and I don't plan on ever listening to most of 'em. I'll like pull from that queue

according to my interest. However, Steve, however, [00:26:00] now recently since I got back into podcast to clarify, I used to listen to a ton of podcasts when I had commute to work, right?

But since I've been working from home, I just haven't had as much car time. So it's like I'm not really gonna go outta my way to listen to a podcast, really apparently . Um, but now,

[00:26:16] Steve: like, it's like walking the dogs, commuting, maybe when I'm washing the dishes. That's, that's like the only time I have podcasts these days.

[00:26:24] Tyler: And now as this happens, I have a dog and that I walk. And so that's kind of what's bringing it back for, it's like the new commute, I guess. But anyway, I recently changed my workflow in pocket casts where I now have a bunch, not all, but like a bunch. A large portion of my podcast now goes straight into be auto downloaded and added to my queue because I

discovered,

[00:26:46] Steve: Just thinking about that. No,

go on, go on, go

[00:26:48] Tyler: I know, I know because I, listen, I know because I did things exactly the same as you did until, until just now. So, but I found a button in here. [00:27:00] Well, I guess I primarily, primarily listened to them in the car. Actually, still I don't drive as it's like the grocery store. It's like running errands.

I take my dog to the park. That's what it is. And so it's not like a ton of podcast time, but in the, in the car. CarPlay interface. There's a little button right on the screen, the home screen, like the now playing screen that just says, Mark is played. So like, I just started listening to the podcast and if it's like not,

if it's not like capturing me, my attention or whatever, I just hit that button and it archives it and goes away and then I just go to the next one.

So it's kind of like, I'm giving more things a chance to like catch my interest. I don't know. It's kind of annoying to me that in the mobile app, the podcast, you have to go into the three dot menu to, to, to do that, um, instead of just having like the button right there.

[00:27:45] Steve: that?

[00:27:47] Tyler: Bottom right, three dot menu,

[00:27:49] Steve: has played. So then if you do that, does it end it and go on to the next one?

[00:27:54] Tyler: Yeah, it just archives it instantly and goes to the next one that's, uh, in the queue,[00:28:00]

[00:28:01] Steve: Okay, I don't have CarPlay in my car, but that button would be very useful because I do have Sometimes I'll get to like the end of the podcast and say, okay, I want, I want to skip the rest of these ads at the end or whatever, and I'll just hit the skip, skip, skip five times, but then it starts skipping into the

next episode. I'm like, Oh no, stop, go

[00:28:21] Tyler: it's like they over engineered that. It was, it's like they did it so well that it's not good anymore. It should just stop at the end of the episode, but it just keeps going, you know?

[00:28:29] Steve: it seems like it used to, or maybe that was when I was using Castro, it, that it worked that way. You just, Hit skip as many times as you want. And once it hit the end of the episode, it would stop registering then until it got to the next one. And then it would start playing from the beginning. I don't know, whatever.

[00:28:45] Tyler: All right. So

[00:28:46] Steve: So nobody's listening anymore.

[00:28:48] Tyler: Yeah, definitely. No one's

[00:28:49] Steve: way off the deep end.

[00:28:51] Tyler: I'm making a list, Steve. I've got podcasts, email, uh, ecosystems, [00:29:00] and. Uh, comfort zone. We just planned our next four episodes in no particular order.

[00:29:07] Steve: Okay. I mean, I thought this, this one kind of was email already.

[00:29:11] Tyler: It was, but I think we could add, we didn't, it was very haphazard.

I think we, I think there's like, you know, and maybe

[00:29:19] Steve: So you'll go try your Apple Mail for a week, and then, and we'll come back and talk about email again.

[00:29:23] Tyler: I don't know how you're going to edit this. I don't know what this is. I don't know what this

[00:29:26] Steve: this

is, This is, a train wreck.

[00:29:28] Tyler: yeah, it's a train wreck. I'm having a good time though.

All right. Well, let's call it there. .

[00:29:36] Steve: Yeah.